Simon Layton

h-index42
2papers

2 Papers

CLSep 29, 2025
Pretraining Large Language Models with NVFP4

Felix Abecassis, Anjulie Agrusa, Dong Ahn et al. · nvidia

Large Language Models (LLMs) today are powerful problem solvers across many domains, and they continue to get stronger as they scale in model size, training set size, and training set quality, as shown by extensive research and experimentation across the industry. Training a frontier model today requires on the order of tens to hundreds of yottaflops, which is a massive investment of time, compute, and energy. Improving pretraining efficiency is therefore essential to enable the next generation of even more capable LLMs. While 8-bit floating point (FP8) training is now widely adopted, transitioning to even narrower precision, such as 4-bit floating point (FP4), could unlock additional improvements in computational speed and resource utilization. However, quantization at this level poses challenges to training stability, convergence, and implementation, notably for large-scale models trained on long token horizons. In this study, we introduce a novel approach for stable and accurate training of large language models (LLMs) using the NVFP4 format. Our method integrates Random Hadamard transforms (RHT) to bound block-level outliers, employs a two-dimensional quantization scheme for consistent representations across both the forward and backward passes, utilizes stochastic rounding for unbiased gradient estimation, and incorporates selective high-precision layers. We validate our approach by training a 12-billion-parameter model on 10 trillion tokens -- the longest publicly documented training run in 4-bit precision to date. Our results show that the model trained with our NVFP4-based pretraining technique achieves training loss and downstream task accuracies comparable to an FP8 baseline. These findings highlight that NVFP4, when combined with our training approach, represents a major step forward in narrow-precision LLM training algorithms.

LGMay 30, 2025
Recipes for Pre-training LLMs with MXFP8

Asit Mishra, Dusan Stosic, Simon Layton et al.

Using fewer bits to represent model parameters and related tensors during pre-training has become a required technique for improving GPU efficiency without sacrificing accuracy. Microscaling (MX) formats introduced in NVIDIA Blackwell generation of GPUs represent a major advancement of this technique, making it practical to combine narrow floating-point data types with finer granularity per-block scaling factors. In turn, this enables both quantization of more tensors than previous approaches and more efficient execution of operations on those tensors. Effective use of MX-formats requires careful choices of various parameters. In this paper we review these choices and show how MXFP8-E4M3 datatype and a specific number conversion algorithm result in training sessions that match those carried out in BF16. We present results using models with up to 8B parameters, trained on high-quality datasets of up to 15T tokens.